tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3949711547542015501.post5711515198517060645..comments2023-12-19T00:21:32.286+00:00Comments on Post Modern Sleaze: Counting problemselectronic dollhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15255101845615353600noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3949711547542015501.post-14746071653819678652010-03-10T20:48:02.199+00:002010-03-10T20:48:02.199+00:00@Conatus
Thanks for that. There's a couple of...@Conatus<br /><br />Thanks for that. There's a couple of things worth adding to.<br /><br />First, I've been very fortunate in that I have never experienced any form of non-consensual abuse, much less anything like your friend has gone through. I'd agree that this form of behaviour should not be classified as sex. After all, rape is assault and a crime. There is a terrible tendency to conflate the two, which causes furher damage.<br /><br />Second, the issue of "what counts as sex" when used to determine boundaries of acceptable behaviour within relationships. The situations you described appear to be incidents whereby a partner has decided to cheat, then defended themselves after the fact with rules in order to say "it wasn't sex, so it wasn't cheating" I've been in relationships where there were defined sexual encounters I could have with other people - specifically not vaginal sex. So it was certainly sex, but also certainly not cheating. I suspect that in your examples the other partner was not made aware of this situation quite so clearly?electronic dollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15255101845615353600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3949711547542015501.post-85253859535957537992010-03-10T18:18:34.660+00:002010-03-10T18:18:34.660+00:00The Kinsey Institute posted their findings from a ...The Kinsey Institute posted their findings from a study on this subject yesterday:<br /><br />http://kinseyconfidential.org/study-finds-universal-definition-sex/<br /><br />In summary, there is no one universally accepted meaning for "had sex", which appears to be the way you see it here too.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13439189985733917070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3949711547542015501.post-18661971724761175272010-03-09T09:41:20.986+00:002010-03-09T09:41:20.986+00:00I have that problem! It's especially problemat...I have that problem! It's especially problematic when trying to count female partners alongside male partners. I tend to end up with halves somehow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3949711547542015501.post-73773237123323019112010-03-09T02:09:42.081+00:002010-03-09T02:09:42.081+00:00Hello again,
What a nicely written post; combinin...Hello again,<br /><br />What a nicely written post; combining both a sexually interesting account with underlying analytical issues. One is quite jealous of the writing style.<br /><br />The philosopher in me would bring up the old sorities paradox originating in Plato, and the contemporary debate concerning semantic vagueness. At what point do we draw the line between the edge of a cloud and the sky (the problem of the many). Vagueness, and the indeterminacy of some semantic categories is one of the hardest and most of difficult philosophical issues. But in all honesty, it doesn't matter so much.<br /><br />(puts on social scientist hat) <br /><br />In more pragmatic and less lofty terms, I think that the heteronormative 'male gaze' is very much present here. I don't know many women, and I've never had the cojones to dare ask such an intimate question of a woman; but I think the notion of 'counting' or putting notches on the bed post is a largely male imposed notion.<br /><br />For a hetero man it would seem all too simple. It seems so crude, 'one' would count for one woman's penetrated orifice. Regional variations apply to issues like 'whether oral or anal counts'. Some men have extremely abhorrent attitudes to 'counting' such as 'eating isn't cheating' or 'anal doesn't count as real sex' (in the case of idealising the virginal hymen).<br /><br />I think I might bring up a particular case. I was once having an intimate talk while sharing a bath with my then-girlfriend. My ex was on the scene and had been in a 24/7 relationship as a sub. It was abusive and I suspect unrepresentative of BDSM relationships as a whole. <br /><br />It once came up about 'how many people have you been with'? <br /><br />A particular issue came up, namely, how her incident with a gangbang 'didn't count' because she may have been drugged/raped during this incident. <br /><br />An incident like that she remembers so poorly because her dom at the time put her on horrible narcotics and her capacity to consent was hindered. She was also so much in a daze she wasn't able to tell one action from another. Her abusive dom 'lent' her to friends and it upsets me so much to even try to conceive of the emotional turmoil it caused her. <br /><br />Sexual behaviour has so many expressions. There are also instances which are unclear whether to classify as sexual, such as abuse. One time I was with some friends and we were messing about and one time they pinned me down and put a power sander (without sandpaper) against my intimate area and a forced orgasm happened.. I don't count that as a sexy moment, just an embarrassing homo erotic moment with the guys.<br /><br />When I was little, I kissed my cousin on the lips, full tongue. She was my first cousin. I was trying to impersonate some scene from dirty dancing and I didn't know any better.<br /><br />In my books, that doesn't count as a 'first kiss'; partly for embarrassment, and also partly from lack of sexual context. I was just a playful child. <br /><br />The beauty of sexuality is its plasticity. Perhaps the one most liberating thing my former lover taught me was not to concentrate on orgasm as a crucial part of sexual expression. Once I learned that I became a much better and much more expressive sexual being.<br /><br />I agree that this is a murky problem, I suspect that I've made things less clear than more.<br /><br />Always a pleasure to read your posts.<br />ConatusMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05823503111603920289noreply@blogger.com